Sunday, October 1, 2017

Cardinal Burke Calls SSPX "Schismatic"

[Aka Catholic] A few months ago, a kind reader reported that Cardinal Raymond Burke, at the Sacred Liturgy Conference that was held in Medford, OR, in July, had publicly declared that the FSSPX is “in schism” while advising the faithful to neither attend their liturgies nor receive their sacraments.


If true, I understood that this would be important information to share for obvious reasons, but I decided that it was first necessary to obtain irrefutable confirmation as to what was actually said.


Today I received an audio recording of Cardinal Burke’s condemnation of the FSSPX as given during the Q&A Session that was held on July 15, 2017 at the above referenced Sacred Liturgy Conference.

https://akacatholic.com/breaking-cardinal-burke-slams-fsspx/

AMDG

68 comments:

  1. I believe that SSPX is in schism. However, I don't believe that they had any choice. You cannot send someone to hell for doing what the Church did for 2000 years. The original intention of Vatican II was good. There is always time and room for reform to make something better.--Nevertheless, Francis is the "great destroyer" spoken of by Francis of Assisi. He is a Marxist who has no moral precepts. The New World Order is here and based on economics and sociology rather than Scripture.

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    1. If the SSPX is "schismatic", then they're the only "schismatics" that pray for Pope Francis at every Mass, Rosary, Benediction etc. I guarantee you that real schismatics DON'T pray for him.

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    2. With respect, I can't help but disagree with you here. The first consideration is the charge of excommunication against Archbishop. Lefebvre and the four bishops. In 1988 Cardinal Gantin declared that by virtue of the canon1382, the consecration of the four bishops, without a papal mandate incurred the penalty of excommunication. Also according to Cardinal Gantin the consecration was a schismatic act because they refused to obey the authority of the pope, 1364,s1. In response to these penalties the Society have cited the 1983 Code of Canon Law as a defence against the aforementioned canons. Canon 1323 s4 states: “A person who violates a law out of necessity is not subject to a penalty, even if there is no state of emergency. If one incalculably thought there was, he would not incur the penalty canon 1323 s7 and if one culpably thought there was, he would still incur no automatic penalties; canon 1324 s3,1,8.”
      So anyone who thinks that the good archbishop did not act in the way he did out of necessity in his own mind is being disingenuous.
      The Assisi ecumenical gathering shocked him to the core. He knew he was dying and so in his own mind acted for the good of the Church and for the salvation of souls. It is a great pity that such an eminent canon lawyer, as Cardinal Burke does does not comprehend this.

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    3. "Also according to Cardinal Gantin the consecration was a schismatic act because they refused to obey the authority of the pope, "

      Then every Pope since 1960 is excommunicated for refusing to obey a direct order from Heaven to a) release the 3rd Secret and b) Consecrate RUSSIA to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

      Also every Pontiff since around 1968 is excommunicated for disobeying Pope Saint Pius V's decree in "Quo Primum" that from that time henceforth, for all eternity, no other Missal but HIS be used for the Celebration of Mass.

      That Missal contains the Rites of Baptism, and Confirmation in their Original wording. This is a terrible scandal, and a shocking punishment will await those clergy who refute that obedience to a pronouncement from a lawful Pope should be held worthy of belief forever.
      http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_pi05qp.htm

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    4. "according to Cardinal Gantin the consecration was a schismatic act because they refused to obey the authority of the pope, "

      A fact lot of use that is stating that he SSPX refused to obey the Pope. Every single POPE since 1968 has refused to be obedient to the command of Pope Saint Pius V within his Papal Bull "Quo Primum" that from henceforth and forever, no other Missal but the one that he has decreed should be used during the celebration of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

      That same Missal not only codifies the Tridentine Mass to be the SOLE Mass celebrated by the RC Church until the end of time, but it also renders unalterable the ancient Rites of Baptism and Confirmation (and Holy Orders) which were altered and changed by Paul VI.

      It is pride that refuses to obey a former Pontiff. It is a charge of schism thrown at the SSPX, but by whom? Pontiffs who are refusing to be obedient to a Missal and a Mass that a former Pope has ordered to be the ONLY Mass that Our Church is allowed to celebrate.

      Certain allowances are made in the same Bull for the ancient rites, as long as they are older than "200 years"

      http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_pi05qp.htm

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  2. You believe that the SSPX is in schism? In schism from what church, I'd like to ask.

    M.Ray

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    1. EXCELLENT question!

      then there's this.....

      "Voris obtains “clarification” from Bishop Schneider which confirms SSPX not in “schism”"
      (http://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/voris-refuted-by-clarification-from-bishop-schneider)

      "The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against other bishops. The priests who venerate me will be scorned and opposed by their confreres...The Church will be full of those who accept compromises..."
      (Our Lady of Akita)

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  3. Well read what Cardinal Hoyos has to say ....

    http://sspx.org/.../news/card-hoyos-sspx-communion-no-schism


    THE
    RED
    CAPS

    Good cap, bad cap
    Last fifty years or two -
    One says "yes"
    And the other says "boo".

    “Bravo”, say the most
    “Error”, just a few -
    Take the Body of Our Lord
    Swallow, munch or chew.

    Bad caps rail
    Good caps hush -
    Good caps snooze
    Bad caps gush.

    Of course their precinct captain
    Knows his hired men -
    Likes to act concerned
    But never will defend,

    Won't correct abuses,
    Like rainbows from a prism,
    When accused together pray
    They're framed to look like schism

    Good cap, bad cap
    All around the town
    Bad cap beats you up
    While good cap holds you down.

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  4. The SSPX bishops are still in formal schism while the clergy and laity are in de facto schism because they follow their bishops.
    None of them will ever rejoin the Catholic Church until they accept in full, without reserve or appeal to exemption, all of the documents of Vatican II. My guess is that very few of them ever will. The game that has been and continues to be played is that Vatican II was just a 'pastoral' Council whose documents can be dismissed as optional. The 3000 Vatican II bishops and all of the popes since the Council have made it perfectly clear that to be genuinely Catholic is to receive and embrace the Council's documents on the nature of the Church, episcopal collegiality, the authority of the local Church to determine liturgical matters, the Council's teaching on ecumenism, the Jews and other non-Christian religious traditions, Religious Freedom and the Church's commitment embrace the challenges of modernity, to evangelical engagement with secular society.
    The SSPX, I think, will never accept these conditions of membership of the Catholic Church and will remain forever outside the Church and die outside of it as Arch Lefebrve did.

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    1. Said the man with 0 authority. You speak as if you had a say in what goes down.

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    2. Your issue is with the 3000 bishops of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, the magisterial documents produced by that Council, ratified by every pope and the college of bishops since then and set out clearly in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
      The schismatic bishops of the SSPX and their followers represent a rejectionist sect who are effectively outside the Catholic Church. I think that they will never be part of it again.
      Apart from a vacuous dismissive one liner, what have you to day that is 'authoritative' Tancred?

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    3. The SSPX bishops are still in formal schism while the clergy and laity are in de facto schism because they follow their bishops. This is not true! Read about the "Hawaii Six," a situation where the Hawaii bishop pronounced six SSPX faithful excommunicated latæ sententiæ, who appealed to Rome, and whom then-Cdl. Ratzinger said were not excommunicated.

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    4. The SSPX will never accept Vatican II and that is why they are and will continue to choose, by their refusal to accept formal Church doctrine, to remain on the edge of Catholicism as a schismatic sect.
      Excommunication is not an issue here. That's part of the smoke and mirrors routine.

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    5. The SSPX never left the Catholic Faith or the Catholic Church. And you line, "by their refusal to accept formal Church doctrine, to remain on the edge of Catholicism as a schismatic sect", is RICH, considering you're an ultramontanist butt-boy for the guy in white polyester who changes doctrine like he changes his shorts, speaking and teaching against the very words of Christ.

      By all means "Bill"...follow that guy; but take some warm weather clothes.

      For the sane commenters here, this is a really good peice of analysis, as she is , once again, dead-on-balls-accurate......

      https://www.barnhardt.biz/2017/10/01/every-square-inch/

      The only thing she misses is that the SSPX WON'T lose one. square. inch......because they stayed loyal to Christ and His CHurch.

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    6. You are, as usual, confusing hysteria and reason.

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    7. and you are, as usual, confusing sanity and you.

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    8. Thanks feybriel....but next time around, why don't you finally go by your real moniker...Ass-modeus.

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    9. Charming stuff again from gutter mouth.

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    10. Ben/Bill O'Idiot/Thomas A(ss)/John C(an't)/Nancy/ fr. jazzhands, and every other gender/identity-confused name you spew sulfur by....thank you :)

      And for the good readers, a little something for your viewing pleasure; a cache-compilation of feybriel's home movies titled, "feybriel; over the years". Enjoy :).......

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZdo0RID9K4



      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZdo0RID9K4

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    11. Bill reminds me of a Vatican II "Pope Francis can do no wrong" priest I once had a discussion about the Church with about a year ago. He was about 70 and had spent his life as a model of Vatican II dissident clergy.
      Bill soulds like him so much, I would not be surprised if he were a priest.
      Damian Malliapalli

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    12. Please name ONE de fide doctrine contained in the documents of Vatican II which the SSPX reject.

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    13. Spot-on Damian....this guy reeks of butt-less leather chaps under a rainbow chasuble. His kind have brought rack-and-ruin to the Church and Her people in untold souls lost. He is of his father, and should be mocked and derided at every opportunity.

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    14. Bill, you make claims of V2 which neither Pope nor Council Fathers would ever have made. It isn't the sum and pinnacle of all Councils, the even Newer Testament. People who exaggerate the standing of V2 separate themselves.

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    15. Bill, change Catholic to Conciliar and I agree with everything you wrote. For you are making a great defense for the Conciliar Church. Your error is in calling it Catholic. Why the SSPX or any Catholic wants anything to do with conciliar modernist heretics is puzzling.

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  5. That's Cdl. Burke's opinion. The SSPX is Catholic. They even have faculties from Francis himself to absolve and witness marriages, and faculties are not needed to say Mass.

    Here's the poster for that conference, which I attended. Also, Cdl. Burke was passing out John Paul II prayer cards at this conference.

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    1. Cardinal Burke came to Sydney and hung around a lot of Opus Dei folk. The Opus Dei in Sydney carry on as if JPII is the only pope ever born! Cardinal Pell only pushes and surrounds himself with this crowd. The unis, xt3, artes christi, catholic weeklyACSA the whole lot is infiltrated and run by ex Redfield or Tangara students. Its amazing stuff. The conciliar church even tells the traditional Fssp what to do as they are their spiritual directors. Cardinal Burke was very into pushinf the YOOM the young order of Malta whilst in Sydney. You can rely 100% that he is a MODERNIST. Well at least we know his feelings now they are out in the open. Looks as Though Bishop Athanasius Schneider is our only hope in the heirarchy.

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    2. Did the prayer cards have nice witch doctors and voudons on them?

      Cardinal Burke does offer a fine Low Mass, at a well judged pace. I wonder if this SSPX-schism rubbish is some sort of electioneering, positioning, that he'll follow a safely BXVI middle of the road Conciliar line.

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  6. Also, it seems he's saying the SSPX was in schism until the lifting of their bishops' "excommunications" and that now they're in a "bit of an anomalous situation…They’re no longer excommunicated, but they’re also not in regular communion with the Catholic Church." If they're schismatic even today, how could schismatics have faculties "to celebrate validly marriages, licitly and validly," as he admits the SSPX have?

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    1. Even apostate priests with valid orders are actually required by Church law to administer the Sacrament of Penance to someone in danger of death or in other exceptional circumstances determined by the Magisterium. Those are concessions in favour of mercy and compassion not a recognition of orthodoxy.

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    2. he's not talking about danger of death, and you know it.....straw dog.

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    3. Does he need an interpreter?

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    4. No. But apparently you do.

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    5. In regard to "Susan": As Flo of Progressive Insurance would say, "pretty good, pretty good".

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    6. More and more, Bill, you remind me of a liberal rad priest fan of Francis. C'mon, 'fess up, Father.
      Damian Malliapalli

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  7. After Cdl. Burke spoke, Abp. Sample mentioned the two SSPX parishes in Oregon he is aware of, and his response was along Cdl. Burke's lines. He was worried of a sort of exodus to these SSPX parishes because, as some parishioners told him, they have more beautiful Masses. I'm sure his comments are available, too, on the conference DVD.

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    1. I can understand why 'Kimbie' Sample would be worried about the flight from his pews but I don't think the SSPX are the worry.

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    2. With a Pope like Francis,there has been a tsumani of exoduses from the Catholic Church to the SSPX and other, little known similar groups....some of which have their own "pope" and have grown 10 fold since Francis came on the scene. I would not want to join a sede vacantist group....the SSPX however, yes. Tens of thousands are doing it. Can anyone blame them?
      Damian Malliapalli

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    3. Whats wrong with sedes? Sede's at least are not disobedient to those they claim have authority over them.

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  8. In what world is +++Burke residing?

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    1. The world where transgender men are nuns.

      Kim

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    2. yeah.......pretty much. And he's the best of the lot.

      *sigh*

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    3. I just read about that incident. One woman in the diocese spoke up and complained to Rome. Burke criticized the woman for speaking out. As a result of her speaking out the tranny was kicked out and the order disbanded. BTW, Cdl. Burke, magna cappa and all that never was my hero since I've understood tradition. When I was floating along in my EWTN phase I thought he was great.

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  9. Fear can sometimes get the best of us all.

    His Eminence knows much more than the rest of us all. Such as 2 of the 4 Dubia signers are no longer with us.

    If he kow-towed to those who surround the Papacy it is only to fight another day ---> as such he was rewarded with the small Tribunal advisor position.

    ¨If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles.¨Sun Tzu

    Pray for Cardinal Burke

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    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  10. Any respect I had for Cardinal Burke has now gone.

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  11. I think Cardinal Burke thinks that he's made his point with the Dubia, and the 150+ scholars sending Francis a correction is far more potent that 4 brave Cardinals. After all, it's more widespread, and embraces people from all corners of the globe. They can't be brushed off....which is why there's been no Vatican response.
    As for Burke, as a loyal priest, he can't say no to this Pope, even though there's no love lost between them. This also heightens Burke's chances at the next papal conclave which we all hope is just around the corner. It is not too far-fetched to imagine Burke getting the Papal crown. Francis has created so much ill will inside the Vatican and out, that it's possible.
    Perhaps Burke's allies in the Vatican petitioned Francis to bring him back...just in time for the next papal election. Don't be surprised if Burke has more friends in the Vatican than we think. That's how unpopular Francis is.
    Damian Malliapalli

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    1. "They can't be brushed off....which is why there's been no Vatican response" Huh? You just contradicted yourself.

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  12. There's been no Vatican response because there is no need for one other than the last two world Synods of bishops whose teaching underpins the essential catholicity of Amoris Laetitia.
    The only ones who should be ashamed in this nonsense are the four Dubia cardinals and the appallingly catechised characters who performed on cue like Pavlov's dogs. All of them need to be retrained.

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  13. Don't speak for the chirping cdl Burke. If he is an honest man, actions will speak for themselves. I just find it incredible that a castrated man could be allowed by the then bishop Burke to be a professed nun. It goes to show how confused his mind is. Eeeek! Go ahead and trust him and make him a champion of Catholic orthodoxy. What say you now, my good Michael Matt & Chris Ferrara? I can't be bothered with Michael Voris as he does not have intellectual honesty.

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    1. They say nothing as of yesterday, suddenly, cat got their tongues or, keyboard fingers, same with 1P5. Suddenly they have nothing to report.

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    2. Creative Minority Report stopped posting on anything specifically Catholic about a year ago. It was very odd.

      Kim

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    3. Maybe it's all a convoluted plan with Burke and El Vatican. One day he's a lib trying to make a transgender a nun until vociferous protests erupt.
      Next thing he's the arch-b of St Louis known for his outspoken pro-life actions and teachings. So cons and trads come to claim him as their mascot. Then popey demotes him for being conservative. Now he's back in the Vatican bashing the trads who have kept the true faith all this time.

      Bad cop becomes good cop becomes bad cop.

      Kim

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  14. This story has been out for two days now, still nothing on 1P5. Hmmm.

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  15. And the SSPX are still schismatic and those who are hoping that they will finally accept Vatican II and become Catholic are clinging to straws.

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    Replies
    1. "accept Vatican II and become Catholic"
      that's some funny stuff there Benny.

      Delete
  16. God love Card Burke for what he does, but he is not just wrong here in a small way, he is canonically, legally, and factually wrong. This man was in the position of the Highest Canonical leader in the Vatican, yet he appears to have left his learning and experience behind. St. Lucy of Fatima said we are in times of Diabolical Disorientation. If think it was from Akita that Our Blessed Mother said three would be Cardinals against Cardinals, and Bishops against bishops. Bishop Fellay (General Superior of the FDSSPX) was the ONLY bishop in the whole world that signed the Correctio Filialis that was given to the Holy Father. A document that supports the Dubia of which Card Burke was one of the authors! But Card Burke’s reason is still occluded by lingering veils of modernism he has imbibed and fostered. Thus, are we all ensnared.

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    1. Actually Bp. Rene Gracida, Emeritus of Corpus Christi, Texas, also signed a few days later.

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  17. Ray's a classic example of the narcissistic, over-indulged, pampered, sissie airport bishop. It's no wonder he was cashiered from La Crosse, St Louis, the Signatura and, effectively, from his non-horse riding chaplaincy to the Knights of Malta.

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    1. the feather boa calling the tiara gay.

      go home feybriel....adults are having a conversation here.

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    2. An 'adult' conversation would rule you out no contest, Dip Stick.

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    3. hey, Pee-Wee Herman...seriously....grow up.
      You're massively out-manned, out-thought, and just generally out-ed at this site, and yet you just keep exposing your ass-ness for all the world to see. Keep it up...you're a better argument against your insanity than anything I or the other good people here could possibly say.

      Hey Tancred....dollars-to-donuts he's got an antifa flag next to a 'my little pony' poster on the wall of his bedroom...oh, sorry, the bedroom in his PARENTS' house where he still mooches.

      sad loser this one.

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  18. I constantly hear that the SSPX have to 'accept' Vatican 2. What does that mean? The Council taught nothing new as binding on Catholics so what exactly are the SSPX or indeed any of the Faithful bound to accept? I consider this insistence on the 'acceptance' of Vatican 2 nothing but a shell game and a way of distracting Catholics from the ongoing attempted destruction of the Faith.

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    1. The documents and Magisterium of a General or Ecumenical Council of the Church require the obedience of assent. This constant chorus from the Trads that Vatican II was purely 'pastoral' and that its teachings are optional is just confected propaganda intended to mask their refusal to receive the Council and accept its teachings.

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    2. I believe you are correct, Ben. That is why I am a sedevacantist.

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    3. Trads like......Pope Benedict XVI. The Council taught nothing that a Catholic has to believe that Catholics did not have to believe prior to the Council. There is nothing new that has to be believed so this nonsensical clamour for fidelity to the Council's teachings is tedious and unnecessary.

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  19. They have to accept the new Mass and reconfigured sacraments, false ecumenism and bishop collegiality.

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